I said I was looking for reasons not to be disgusted. I've had the good fortune of talking with an Iraqi-American here in Chicago over email a little bit, and he assures me that as long as Saddam and his inner circle are no longer in power when this war ends, life for the people of Iraq will be better. That is heartening.
I've also watched Tony Blair's speech in the House of Commons immediately prior to their vote to support a war. He's a very persuasive speaker, much in the way Bush isn't. There are apparently many reasons not to like him (I don't know what any of them are, but I know a lot of people don't like him), but the guy clearly has his mind together and can defend his points on his feet. That is to be admired, and sought after in our leadership.
Clearly the threat of force was what brought about some sort of compliance with the UN weapons inspectors. Without it, we could just have welcomed more of the same old lying bullshit from Hussein. The more I read, the more I think that this war is at least somewhat justifiable, provided we start doing things right in the areas where we were doing things dead wrong leading up to the war. We just didn't want to wait even a few weeks more to do the boring work of diplomacy.
There's a lot of talk out there of how protesting in the streets, blocking traffic and so forth, is narcisistic, selfish, vile, anti-American, and so on. I agree that there are much more productive ways of making change. The war is on, and the best thing we can do is, first of all, support our people, respect the Iraqis, and hope for as quick and clean a finish as possible. Second, look at what, and especially who, brought us to this point. The liberals need to develop a concrete plan for orchestrating peace in the future. The most vocal conservatives may be largely nuts who would just as soon let the Enrons of the world run the show, but they certainly have plans and resonant rhetoric that is not really matched on the left. We have to be able to take on the conservative agenda head-on, question the actions of this administration, and not accept this bologna of compassionate conservatism.
There's way too much reading out there. The outpouring of support both for our troops and the people of Iraq, from all corners, is important. But let's all remember that the story isn't over a week, a month, or even years after the white flags start flying from Saddam's palace (as I hope they will). We have gotten ourselves into one hell of a mess with this war, and it is going to take some serious statesmanship that we are currently desperately lacking to stem the tide of rage that is steadily building.
Here are a bunch of good links. There are a lot of people out there who know a lot more than I do about the situation. My thinking is developing all the time, and I relish the chance to discuss the current state of my mind with anyone who comes here and reads. Keep the comments coming, please.
Pros and Cons of the War
The Sum Of All Fears
The Arrogant Empire
Electrolite
Charles Dodgson
Joe, I feel I need to explain my previous comments, posted on 3/17/03.
You made a comment that makes me wonder if you were insulted by what I said.
I would hope you would know I would not insult you.
I made the comment about being a woman (or anyone for that matter) living in Iraq, willing to die because of the rape rooms, hanging women upside-down during their periods, tongues being pulled out, starvation, etc. etc.
I don’t want war…but how else will these horrors be stopped? How else will these people live with the freedoms we so enjoy? It seems like there are a lot of people screaming peace, while others suffer from a madman. No one has come up with any other solution to stop him.
I appreciate your passion, and your commitment. And I can’t help but note, because you live in America you can say what you have on your website. I agree with many ideas you have. One however, I must say I am totally opposed to – you made reference to the fact that woman should have the freedom to get a safe abortion. Isn’t that killing too? Yes, it is, and it is just as wrong as war is. Abortion takes away the lives of far more innocents than war does.
I remember when I was younger how we had to go under our school desks and practice for air raids. I had both of my Dads go to Nam…I was very opposed to it. I refused to stand and show respect for America. Then I thought about those men and woman who were fighting, and I had to stand and show respect for them and ultimately America. I will not agree with everything our government does, but I feel we are truly blessed to live here. We need to show the men and women who are willing to die for us, respect and gratitude.
I look forward to reading your viewpoints. I wrote a comment because it saddened me to see what it was doing to you. Continue to listen and be open to others. Perhaps you could join with many, many others in prayer for peace and healing.
Love Aunt Darcy
I held off writing anything on this for a little while, but I don't think I can stand to wait any longer.
The comparison of abortion with war staggered me. They are so unlike one another on the face of it as to leave my eyes aflutter in disbelief.
However, I've since realized that there are key similarities between them. They both are things that no one would choose voluntarily, they both are very stressful for the people involved, and they are always to be used as an absolute last resort. No one runs around getting abortions for fun. Indeed, no one gets abortions unless there's just no other way to prevent one or more lives (that is, at least the life of the mother, and the future life of the unborn) being ruined. However, it is possible to get an abortion safely with proper medical attention, and it is undoubtedly up to each mother whether she and her family are capable of taking care of that unborn child. It is, in my opinion, their decision, and no one else's. There are currently, unfortunately, people in power who believe they know better, and are seeking to dismantle the legal precedents that protect that right. How virtuous.
This is probably obvious if to those who have read what I've said, but I do not believe we entered this war as the last resort. Yes, we have had to wait a long time already for Hussein to disarm. Yes, the international community agrees he is lethal, and has given him chance after chance over the last twelve years to make a disclosure of the weapons and start disarming.
No, we did not need to start the war when we did. Absolutely not. Diplomacy was showing signs of working more than it had previously. The threat of war was making progress happen. We didn't have to do this. The threat might have been enough. We should have taken more time.
Have I said, even once, that our soldiers are not to be supported? No. Does an hour go by when I don't hope that this war will end soon and satisfactorily, with minimal loss of life on either side? No.
Do I believe that it is important to protect the rights of people like me, and people who don't agree with me, to be able to voice their opinions? Yes.
Do I take any of this for granted? Absolutely not.
But do I believe this war is just? No. If my finger had been on the button, would I have pressed it? No. Will good things come of it? I hope so, and believe so. Will bad things come out of it? I am dismayed to say my answer is yes.
I am not going to be quiet merely because my ideas run contrary to those who are currently running the show. If I were in power, I would never expect, or even hope for, those who didn't agree with me to be quiet. Dissent forces one to clarify and reaffirm their ideas, to check them out and make sure what they believe is legitimate.
I am listening and reading, talking and writing. My mind and eyes are open. I have convictions that color and filter everything I experience, and that's all going to come out.
Never mistake dissent for disrespect. The difference is fundamental, and critically important in times of trouble.
Posted by Joe at March 25, 2003 1:37 AMAs I have told you, I respect a lot of what you have said. However, I feel you need to spend time with some trusted people, to get the other viewpoints of war. I think it would behoove you to remember there are people who are far more qualified than we to make the final decision. Does this mean we have to agree with it? No. This war is about far more than disarming. It is about liberating people, especially women from a madman. This is also about making it illegal to rape, torture and kill innocents for voicing their opinions.
You mention respect; I feel that under no condition should we talk in a disrespectful way to the President of the United States. In your open letter you called him a liar. If you feel he has lied, or misrepresented himself do you not have a more respectful way to put your point across? Just think about this for a minute…wouldn’t this world be a totally different place – if we all lived by the Golden Rule?
As far as abortion goes, you opened the door with your comment. My eyes were aflutter too. This is another area I think you should delve deeper into. Let’s take a step back; if two people are going to bed together, then they need to be responsible for anything that comes of it, not just for pleasure. The outcome could be unplanned pregnancy or a STD(s). Yes, people voluntarily choose abortion; no one is forcing them to get one. One couple’s burden could become another’s blessing. Trust me Joe; there are many women who get more than one abortion. I don’t understand how you can say an unplanned pregnancy could “ruin” someone’s life. That indicates being able to see into the future. And again I say, don’t play unless you can pay. What about the women who are raped, or can’t afford a child? Adoption is a great option; many choose to keep the baby. Abortion is another horror, do you know the details? Have you seen what is done? Do you know what is done to the baby, when an abortion is performed?
I want the war to end as soon as possible. I want the troops to come home and be with their families. I have come to terms with the fact that war(s) will happen. This won’t be the last.
No one expects you to be quiet, nor would I want you to be. It is the discussions that bring about change, discussions also bring about learning.
I believe that even if we don’t agree with what is going on, we still need to show respect, to everyone when voicing a different opinion. If you don’t, people have a tendency to stop listening, or walk away.
I too believe it is important to protect the rights of people, all people.
America is very powerful, and with all that power, comes responsibility.
Tell me and others Joe, what better way is there to go in and free the Iraqi people?
Posted by Darcy at March 27, 2003 12:45 PMJoe, You said:
"The most vocal conservatives may be largely nuts who would just as soon let the Enrons of the world run the show..."
I am a Conservative (early Goldwater supporter), I may be a nut, but I ain't nuts; I do not support the Enrons of the world, or any other company or individual who breaks the law.
John
Petaluma, CA
Hello John the Nut. (ha ha)
The problem for me with "the Enrons of the world," as I say, is that most of them are not caught. There are innumerable large corporations which are extremely opposed to regulation of any kind (environmental, economic, and so on) while still demanding federal bailout money when things go sour.
The way our elections are financed has been causing serious political, and therefore social, problems for years and years. As long as our government is beholden to the people with the big bucks, the interests of the people are not being served. The most obvious consequences are shown only when the problem is so outlandish, so over-the-top, that the company (Enron is the current example) gets caught and tanks.
Obviously no one in their right mind is going to support the idea of companies being able to break the law. My biggest problem is that these companies are but a small step away from writing the laws themselves. As it is, they aren't doing it themselves, but our representatives are often just proxies protecting the interests of those who paid for them to get into government in the first place.
This is what John McCain has been screaming about for years, and I long for the day when people start listening, and acting on it.
Posted by Joe at April 1, 2003 10:51 AM
I too am incredibly overwhelmed at the amount of information that is out there. It is a large task to sift through the crap barrage, and my opinions are constantly evolving. Appreciate the link to the Pros and Cons of War. Still reading it.
Peaceful demonstration is an important liberty that provides governments with in-your-face public opinions and helps keep them constantly evaluating their positions. They may ultimately have an affect on the future reconstruction of Iraq. They may also account for why Donald H. Rumpswab is a little less smug each time he speaks. Those that are occurring around the world may even be contributing to the pauses in between bombing runs over Iraq. All I heard at the start of the conflict was how powerful, massive and constant they were going to be and was afraid at what I thought would be staggering civilian casualties. Now there seems to be a great effort by the coalition being placed on bombing, pausing, and waiting to see if the Hussein regime will buckle rather than just trashing the city. This is encouraging.
Wilson
Posted by Wilson at March 22, 2003 7:00 AM